Gloria's interview

1. Why did you want to be involved in this photo shoot?

I think it is important to address the untold story, the history about Black people, about us being enslaved and where we really come from, because we didn't really learn that in school, so I think it is really important to be part of this project.

2. How did it make you feel to be involved in this photoshoot?

It brought tears in my eyes, literally, thinking that it could have been me. It was my ancestors that went through that, where they treated us like we were less than human, and it just brought tears and it gave that sense of reality. I felt so sad.

3. What would you have liked to have said to Beckford and Cass or those who facilitated their involvement in enslaving Africans if you could have done so when they were alive?

I don't know, I am quite a vocal person. So, I would have been saying to them, “WHY?” Why did you take us away from our lands and then treat us less than a human being, treat us worse than dogs? And I would want to know why would you think you have a right to do that? I would be really angry with them and upset, but obviously we would not have been allowed to say that, but that's what we wanted to say. And split us from our families. If we reversed it and we did it to them, how would they have felt? That's what I would say - if we
did it to you, how would you feel being taken away from your parents, your kids, your family, your happy environment? Then to treat us the way you did on top of that, so it wasn't even giving us a better life. And then you're saying that we are the ones that are savages… I don't understand.

It's just evil. Really. The only thing you could say is it's just evil because I'm a Christian, so I would just say it's just evil to the extreme.

4. Tell us about your outfit and the significance of the props that you used?

My outfit was mainly celebrating in the Windrush Generation because they loved the colours. And this reminds me of the wallpaper we had when we came to England.
(Pointing at their poster with images of flags and a family photo) I also had a picture of my mom and dad who were from the Windrush generation, and a map of all the islands. They
don’t seem to realise that they have split us into so many islands from the Caribbean. So, I had to bring the map showing how many islands there are to show how much they [slave traders] separated us when they brought us to the Caribbean. Only now really, over the last 100 years, we are actually free - not totally liberated, but free enough to have our freedom of speech. But some places are still really ‘enslaved’.

…Can I just count it? So we're looking at 1, 2, 3… 14, so 28 islands of the Caribbean that they split us into. The Caribs lived there and then they [slave traders] put us all there - the enslaved - and called it the Caribbean Islands. That's how much they split the enslaved Africans into 28 countries.

5. The Revealing the City's Past project is about reinterpreting these two statues in light of the fact that they are not being removed under the Government's 'retain and explain' directive. Do you think projects like this are important to you?

We need to reflect all of history, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Even though we don't approve of the statues, they are here. Now we've got the opportunity to tell our side of the story and I think that's what's important. When history is taught in school, it should be taught from all sides. You can't hide it.

6. What do you hope the City of London Corporation does next to make their spaces more relevant and accessible to more people?

Personally, I think that London should have a museum like Liverpool, revealing the whole of history, but from the enslaved Africans’ point of view, and commission statues of people that went through enslavement - the ones that they don't talk about, the ones that came to England, were the inventors and the scholars of the past that they've covered up. I think that should all be revealed. So next to their statues should be one of our statues. That's what I'd like to see going forward.

So I’ve noticed we have got the statue of Margaret Thatcher here. Why don't we have a statue of our first Black MP in England, Bernie Grant. So it's marking the Black British experience and what we've done in this country, that would be nice. We should know of the first Black people that made a difference in this country, so rather than tearing down, we should put parallel statues up.

Guest interviews feature voices on topics relevant to our collections and public spaces. Guest interviews do not necessarily reflect the views of the City Corporation

Artwork ©Ayanna Sankara